we would hit the debt ceiling, be reminded we're borrowing too much. they would fight about raising it and then they would raise it. what happened last time, i think, was throwing cold water on to the system of how close we got to truly defaulting and the fact that that will lead to economic problems in the country and around the world. >> republicans almost gleeful that the debt ceiling will give them leverage to extract spending cuts. is this good policy or is it revenge? is it a speed bump, or is this somehow -- is it political? >> tees taes deeply political, cycle of revenge and recrimination. it's the definition of insanity, doing something over again and expect i expecting a different result. we got our aaa rating downgraded. in retro expect, they realized that grand bargain -- spending cuts, revenue increases and entitlement reform. the idea every time congress has set itself this artificial deadline, whatever it may beady debt ceiling, super committee crisis, fiscal cliff, somehow they fail, they weasel out of it. we still have this looming, lo